The timing chain issue is a big probem in the U.K too. My R56 Cooper S is back in dealer's tomorrow after having full fix two weeks ago. O.K if in warranty but very expensive if warranty expired. I think BMW know the cars are at fault but don't want to go to the expense of a recall so make do with temporary fixes until cars have run out of warranty and hope people will go away. Have a look on U.K Mini sites concerning this issue and you might understand the frustration people have with these so-called quality cars.
The problem is going to occur NOW when the 2007 Cooper S owners start to go beyond their 4 year warranty. I purchased my 2007 Cooper S brand new in March of 2007. I brought it in for an oil change and service in March of 2011. The car had 24K miles on it. At that time the dealer replaced the timing chain tensioner under warranty. The car is now outside the warranty period. The check engine light came on and I brought it in for service. I was informed that the timing chain tensioner went bad, the timing chain got streched and it will need to be replaced at a cost of $2K. So now, just outside my warranty period, I am having to pay for a COSTLY repair for a known issue...that I had FIXED a couple of months ago!!!!! Any advice on how to approach this would be very helpful.
Remind the dealer that parts replacements have a 2 year warranty. Speak to the service manager in a nice calm manner and slip the words "goodwill repair" in the conversation.
By procedure, they are supposed to check for stretch of the timing chain. But MINI tends to fix things one thing at a time. As an example, they replaced the chain tensioner probably because you complained about the noise???? If you had complained a second time, they would have moved to the next item being the chain (because the tensioner had just been replaced). They would have checked for chain stretch. Since you probably didn't complain a second time, the assumption was the complaint was fixed. This results in MINI reducing their warranty repair costs (and unfortunately, you get stuck when it occurs out of warranty). At this point they may only be on the hook to replace the tensioner, unless you are successful in convincing them the defective tensioner caused the chain to stretch. Your best bet is as Nathan suggested. Especially with the nice calm manner. If it comes to screaming and yelling you probably won't get any satisfaction. The thing is most of the stretch took place before your March repair date and they really should have taken the chain measurement and caught that additional problem. And yeah.... "Goodwill Repair" are the magic words..... Good Luck, and let us know how it turns out.
I'd be up for a class action. He's my story. After writing this post I decided to move the last part to the top so that everyone can cut to the chase for some useful information. Then if they want they can read the rest to see how I came to my opinions. Here’s to better luck with your Mini than I’ve had with mine. As much as I’ve enjoyed driving it I’ve hated owning it. I’m getting rid of it with no remorse and I don’t see another MINI or BMW in my future at any point. I’ve learned that: When a Mini dealer says something is caused by ‘bad gas’ that what they actually mean is “we think you are an idiot and you’ll believe thisâ€. When a Mini dealer says it is a “normal noise†that they actually mean, you guessed it, “we think you are an idiot and you’ll believe thisâ€. (If my technically advanced Mini/Bmw sounds like it has a bag of rocks bouncing around in the engine when it starts up then I, for one, really don’t want a Mini or a BMW!) When your Mini dealer says “we can’t replicate the noise†It means either “you are lying†or “we really don’t want to hear about it unless it breaks and we have to do something. Maybe it will hang in there until your warranty expires.†However when you do bring it in after the warranty has expired and they can hear the sound then they look at you like an idiot for continuing to drive something that sounds so bad. Even when you tell them that the noise is still intermittent and it was totally quiet on the way in they react in a way that lets you know, you guessed it, “you are lyingâ€. If you are having the death rattle and you are still under warranty you need to “bitch your head off†to get it fixed under warranty. Apparently being very assertive multiple times over 3 years just doesn’t do the trick. The engine death rattle can lead to the timing chain jumping or breaking and then the valves running into the pistons which in turn leads to a repair bill for $8,000 for a new engine. I supposed I would have had to pick up 30% (or 40% if they learn how to do math right. Read the whole story to see what this means). I did not know that death rattle could lead to complete engine failure until very recently when I started reading several forums. MINI USA really doesn’t give a ****, but apparently some dealers are better than mine. If you own or are going to buy a Mini or a BMW you need to budget to replace it often enough to keep it under warranty. These cars are not especially reliable (as many independent ratings now show), they are very expensive to fix (you’ve seen your warranty invoices or worse you’ve paid to have the dealer fix something so you know how painful that is), and finally these are fragile cars in the sense that their sophistication leads to one small problem leading to a big one, i.e. the vacuum pump problem can also cause an engine to be destroyed. Also unless you are lucky enough to live close to your dealer you have to deal with long trips for service and the inconvenience of dropping off your car during normal hours if you want a loaner. Once you are out of warranty then of course you have no loaner. So in my case I’ve been without my MINI this time for 2 weeks due to waiting to get in for service and then it taking the dealer an inordinate amount of time to fix it even though they didn’t need to order parts. This inconvenience turned out to be a much greater irritation than I expected when I bought the car. Of course one reason for this was that the Mini had to go back to the dealer multiple times under warranty where the last two new cars I bought only when back to dealer for warranty work one time EACH. I kept my 99 Isuzu Trooper for 160,000 miles and the only non-maintenance items it has needed were a radiator at over 120,000 and a starter at 150,000. At that kind of mileage and age of over 10 years even those could be viewed as maintenance. I still own my 2004 Chevy Tracker (Suzuki Grand Vitara) with 103,000 miles. I had to replace the alternator at about 95,000. Since MINI won’t even admit to the death rattle problem they cannot really come out and advertise that the problem is fixed for current models. In my review of various forums I only see reports for 07, 08, 09, and 10. However the 11’s and 12’s may simply not have enough miles on them to have had this problem yet. There are also forums for other brands that use this engine in Europe and there are lots of reports of the death rattle there too. Since I haven’t read every post on every forum there may be reports from 11 and 12 models. Therefore I’m relatively certain the death rattle is still a concern. I had test driven an 11 MCS to see what more horsepower felt like and especially to try out the electronic limited slip. The electronic limited slip eliminated torque steer and made the MCS more like the first generation, which is a good thing. However, even now if I could resign myself to buying a new car every four years (I usually keep mine 8 to 10 years) I wouldn’t get a MINI or BMW knowing what I know now. So here’s the story: Thought I’d post this so others could decide what to do. I have a 07 MCS that I purchased in March of 2007. The timing chain tensioner completely failed at 20,000 with no warning in June of 08. There were no morning rattles or anything. I just driving the car, came down from speed to idle and the engine sounded like a bag of rocks. If I ran the revs up to 3,000 rpms the centrifugal force took up the slack and the engine quieted down except for the light rubbing of the chain on the case. The chain, tensioner, etc. was replaced under warranty. A few months and a few thousand miles later the dieseling death rattle began. It was very random with no discernable ‘triggers’ as others have found. The outside temperature could be hot or cold. I could park it level in the garage or nose up in the driveway. It could sit a short time or for a week. Nothing seems to make a difference. It rattles on start up whenever it feels like it for varying lengths of time from 30 seconds to a few minutes. I complained about the noise at every service and even took it into service just for the noise. One time I took it in for just the rattle and left it for several days. At various times we were told that it was “bad gas†and a “normal noiseâ€, but we were always told “that they could not replicate the noiseâ€. Now, December of 2011, after the car is out of warranty it made the death rattle so loud it trippedf the ‘half yellow engine’ warning so I took it and dropped it off on a Sunday evening. I called the dealer on Monday morning and asked if they were able to hear the noise. The service adviser said yes, of course it was very loud. I told him it was quiet as could be on the way down. From his reaction he obviously didn’t believe me. He said the replacement of the tensioner/chain would cost $1,550, but he’d call MINI and see if they would do anything. I told him it had been intermittently rattling for over 3 years and if he looked back at the service records he’d see that we complained about it at every service, took it in specifically just for the noise, and even took it in and left it for several days. I told him I expected MINI to cover EVERYTHING since it should have been replaced under warranty at one of the many times we complained. I should note here that after not hearing from the service adviser I had to call him back to see what they had found out. The next day at 5:30, after I had left work, the service advisor called and left a message to let me know that MINI would cover 40%, the dealer would cover 20%, and I was to pick up 30%. I listened to it twice to make sure I was hearing it right since you will note that the numbers only add up to 90%. (Apparently that can’t even do that right). I called back the next day and before I could say anything the service adviser said he knew the numbers he had given me didn’t add up to 100%, but that I’d only have to cover 30% (very smart move on his part) and that also the work would be at warranty rate so that the total would be much less than $1,550. So I had to wait nearly a week until I could take the car in, they had it beginning on a Monday, had the parts in stock and promised it for Wednesday. Late Wednesday they called to say they could not have it done, but were pretty sure they could have it done on Thursday. I told them it was OK if they finished Friday because I couldn’t get all the way to the dealer until Saturday. Of course they called late Friday to let me know that it wouldn’t be ready until Monday and “was that OKâ€. I replied that “I eally don’t have any choice do I?†Hopefully it is done tomorrow. Hopefully it doesn’t rattle anymore. Hopefully someone else owns it when the latest tensioner/chain wears out. Hopefully ‘someone’ can get MINI to fix it again.
I have a 2007 Mini Cooper S W/ 85000 miles. Timing chain ideler broke chain came off destroyed head and engine.Have to replace engine.anything else I can do to help the couse let me know.No help from the dealer!:mad2:
If it will get my car fixed i'll be a part of it.2007 MINI COOPER S 85000 miles.Tensioner came off and chain destroyed motor absolutly no help from Dealler.$5700 to replace engine.and no I can't spell either.
Besides the dealer have you contacted MINI USA. I assume US as thats where about 87% of the members are from and you didn't mention a location. How far up the food chain did you go at the dealership? I'd be pointing out that this is a known issue and there are TSB's about it as I marched right up to the level of dealer owner if I needed too.
Yes, but he has 85,000 miles on it, are they supposed to warranty it forever? To many unknowns here to really be giving advice, like if it ever had an oil change, is he the first owner or the 5th, is he in the US and so on....... The ones that really bother me are those that are clearly documented thruout the ownership, follow all MINI service requirements, then fail at 50,001 miles and get turned down for warranty coverage. If that happened to me I'd fix the engine, sell the car and never darken their door again.
Timing Belt and Turbo Hi There...I'm an original owner of a 2008 Mini Cooper Clubman. I took in the car because the engine light was on. It was diagnosed with a bad turbo...even though I changed the oil every 5-7K with the designated synthetic oil. This was a hard pill to swallow at $3400.00 but it was the best option considering I owe 17K on the car and it's only worth 17K with a good turbo. So...I said okay on the repair. The shop called me on the day it was supposed to be done and said they had bad news. When they went to get the car started, the timing belt busted when it turned over and the engine is toast. So...any ideas out there? I've read about peeps with issues in the turbo AND the timing belt.
:cornut: My heart goes out to you, aventurazzi. There are much smarter people then me on this here site but let's give it a try, shall we? 1. 08 MC Clubman with a turbo. So it's really a MCS Clubman. 2. how many miles on it? 3. is it still under warranty?(probably not as you had to pay for a new turbo) 4. was this work done at a dealer or independent shop?(if at your dealer where you bought the car,maintained the car and kept good relations with the staff,there is such a thing as 'good will money' that the dealer can use for catastrophic repairs such as yours. One starts(in a friendly calm manner) with the service manager and if no help, then up to the general manager. If this cannot be accomplished at the dealer then going up to MINI USA is possible but usually of no help. The dealer is the key. Bringing a pretty young wife who is quietly tearful and hanging on your arm is a plus and if she has a small good behaved child with her, that's even better. 5. if done at an independent shop then you're really stuck. 6. what state/city do you live in? The Miniacs on Motoring Alliance have the US and Canada covered as far as reputable/upstanding/knowledgable 'Mini' Shops/Garages that can help at a lot less money then any dealer. I hope that this was helpfull. Good Luck and God Bless. Jason
I'm second owner found documentation where 1st owner had serviced at dealer.I change oil evry 5-7k miles. car had 45000miles when I bought it started making noise at about 51000miles I live about 200 miles from dealer so I called service manager he said noise is normal when cold starts so I didn't worry about it at 85000 miles it let loose.wasn't reading forums till after chain let loose.My bad. I wish I would have reserched this car better before I bought it.Wasn't really expecting a warrenty fix,just bugs me that BMW new of this problem and hasn't addressed it. What I really want to know is if anybody knows if the factory reman.engines have the same timming chain issues or have they addressed it. Don't want to mention dealer becouse they have my car know .reman. engine has codes not sure what but has something to do with camshaft timming position .any way dose this car need a new owner or do you guys think the essue is solved with this reman. engine
Just want to add to the list here... Just recently had the auxiliary water pump recall service and magically my waste gate valve (redirect as they call it ) failed. So now my car codes and goes into limp mode anytime you spool up the turbo. They also say that the timing chain is stretched from 79 to 82mm. In the last month I have replaced the primary water pump, recall replaced the aux h20 pump, replaced the redirect valve for the turbo, replaced the timing chain tensioner (for the second time in its history, the first time under warranty,) and now they want to replace the timing chain for $1300 bucks.....WHEN THEY ALREADY HAVE THE ASSEMBLY OFF TO REPLACE THE H20 pump. I am of course infuriated with the many things breaking just after the 50k warranty. MINIUSA has been dismissive to this point. I think I am going to have the timing chain tensioner put on (AGAIN) and just find a new owner.
Minidave, You seem awful casual about the situation. Considering the seriousness of the folks who have stretched timing chains ( which really should be a zero maintenance part ) you really have no business chastising someone nervous about a US$4000 potential cost. The company should be more proactive and responsible and you should be less dismissive. Of course, until this problem either happens to you (just outside of your warranty, as mine did) you probably won't appreciate the seriousness of having no transportation and such a huge expense for parts that would NEVER fail on Hyundais or Kias.
09 Timing Chain Issues I've already paid $1900+ to have this fixed and just received a call that apparently there are bent valves and they want over $4000 to fix it. I do not have $4000 and the car is stranded 500 miles from home!!!!! I am so upset.
Just spent $1800 getting a timing chain issue fixed, customer service at MINI USA is useless and the only way to talk to somebody higher up is to snail mail corporate in Jersey.
2008 MINI Cooper S with 70K miles - I am second owner purchased in 03/2011. Just had this issue fixed on 09/14/2012 but still had extended warranty as CPO. Makes me angry that there is no oil sensor and MINI knows this is an issue. Doesn't make sense...:confused5: